Category: Let's talk
The question is in the subject line for the topic, and I think this time I'll forego an explanation, so I'd like to see your best answer to this question.
Guess that depends how you define "normal". I checked with google and found the following.
Damn! Information overload! Fascinating, though. I dunno. Normal as in a normal person. What's so good about it?
I have a Pastor that's my boss, and he defines normal as a setting on your dishwasher, clothes washer, air condintioner, etc. I think normal is a relative term depending on one's culture and environment. I don't subscribe to some aspects of "normality" and don't plan to start any time soon. Does this mean I have a total disregard for convention? No. I respect it, and chose those conventions by which I will abide.
I don't know. Since most of us on here are blind, we start off not conforming to most people's sense of normality, so, what's the use of trying to be normal?
I never liked the concept of being normal. Normal to me seems like the same as perfect, so I always liked being unique, being individual. If I'm abnormal by someone's standards, so be it, I'm just me!
I like a lot of the responses here. I think Motifated is spot-on. As for Blbobby, you have a point, but I find some blind people want to blend in and/or pass as sighted because they feel that being different or standing out is wrong or shameful or will just get them grief from the other normals. Have you ever heard one person say to another in a harsh tone of voice, "Why can't you just be normal!" Or have you heard some person talk about something like a given type of TV show or music and just conclude it's for weirdos? Some folks who see themselves as normal seem to be pretty smug about the whole thing and see being normal as some ultimate way to be. Now, as for you, Nachtmusik, I do think there are those who do equate being normal with being perfect. I like to term it as "consistently pleasant." So all of you made some good points. Now, here's my twisted idea of what a normal person is. See, they're kind of a human herd animal. They are most interested in keeping up appearances so as not to cause dislike or rejection from the other normals. There might be a budding eccentric inside, but they feel that person has to be well-hidden. Another type of normal person is one who doesn't really think too much for themselves. They'll just go along with the crowd and just parrot what they heard from their friends who listen to, let's say, talk radio for their view of the world. They're kind of dull and not all that creative because they also see standing out or being different as a sign of being just one of those damn weirdos, and you know how dangerous and evil those weirdos are. Now, is that just twisted or what!
When I was in high school, I tried a lot harder to be "normal" than I do now as an adult. I had a good amount of partial sight then and did try to "pass" as sighted because I hated being different. But I don't have that sight anymore and have come to realize that not being "normal" isn't so bad.
Labyrinth, I really need to think about this definition of Normal you posed. I think you've described a large percentage of the population, and you raise some frightening questions about the general condition of mankind and our attitudes. I'd like to think we're not all as passive as your criteria for normaluggests, but as I'm writing this, I'm making many errors, because I'm absorbed in what you set forth here. Thanks for depressing me before I go to work tomorrow. LOL.
Lou
Um, sorry about that, Chief.
You can never really be normal I think. You may try to fit in or whatever, but to me, normal suggests a group trait and no one can really become a carbon copy of someone else and hell, that confused even me. lol.
This is an interesting question. I use to try to fit in and be "normal" but now, I strive to be individual. As for the question, "Why be normal?"
Humans crave acceptance, whether they deny that fact or not, humans want the approoval of others. (duh?)
Yeah, I think you got it. I dunno. I want to be accepted and loved, but I'm not sacrificing my personality, my point of view, or my eccentricities for it. If people feel it benefits them or entertains them by hating me, that's their thing and I can't do a damned thing about it.
Define normal
Normal as I see it, is not looking or acting like you're blind. I try and hide the fact I have no sight when I'm out in public places or something as I don't need and can't stand the sympathetic comments, I like people to know I can do quite a lot of things independently without asking for assistance, like for example, cutting up a rib eye sbeef stak when having a meal out with my family or friends. The other day though, mum insisted she cut it up for me, whipped the plate, knife and fork out of my hands so I sat there feeling like a total prat who couldn't even lift a knife and fork by herself and hoping against hope no-one was looking while at the same timee, sinking lower and lower on my chair. I am normal as far as I'm concerned. I'm writing this post on a PC with Windows XP and JAWS 6.0 screen-reading software, I use a mobile phone with TALKS, I've recently acquired an Ipod Nano and have downloaded a couple of CDs on there already, so, like it or not folks, I'd say that was pretty normal.
i like it jen and agree with you. i hate those blind folks, that try to be too sighted though. it just doesn't suit them, like trying to walk along and not being guided, then just banging into things, which makes them look even more bloody foolish than when they started out. i have the same as jenny, a mobile phone with a screen, but just the talks software. it doesn't mean i'm any different to other sighted people, just that i need something to read the screen. i like being individual, and i hate people who say that being blind is abnormal.
I idealistically believe that the idea that sticking out or generally being different is bad or shameful should be thrown out as one of society's bullshit beliefs. Just because a majority of people believe something does not make it right or something that should be encouraged or validated.
hmm idealism is fine in theory but rarely works in practice, after a while people will be indoctrinated into believing whatever they are told..E.G N Korea.
Yep, shame on that. I still haven't heard a compelling argument on why being normal is so much greater than anything else.
Oh, and here's a question for both Bellatrix and Blairwitch, and no, I'm not picking on you two and not wanting to start drama, because I just don't play that. Right, so what does what particular gizmos you own have to do with how normal you see yourself as. Granted, I'm normal in the very basic sense, but I would not really claim I was, yet although this is a fairly recent computer with XP on it, nobody in the house has a cellphone or any kind of flash or hard-drive-based mp3 player. We do have assorted CD players that will play mp3 files and both of the DVD players we own will do that
The first time I ever really paid attention to this word was when a retired pastor told me that it was normal for a person to question the existence of God.
But as far back as I can remember, the first time I ever thought of somebody as being abnormal was when I went to summer camp with my sixth grade class; we were there for a week. It was the perfect place to see the diversity of California; black, asian, caucasian, and latino kids who were all from South Central, Hollywood, Beverly Hills, East LA, the Valley, just kids from all over the place. It was weird seeing latinos behaving and talking like blacks, and it was funny seeing asians talking and acting like latinos. (I knew this one asian guy later on in high school who was from a latino gang.) I guess I had this experience because I was bused. But on the first night when we were all getting ready for bed and after we'd all taken showers, there was this asian kid, must've been Vietnamese, who came out of the showers all naked; we saw everything. But it was funny because he had a careless smile on his face as though it was completely normal for a person to be seen naked by strangers. We all laughed at him but he just continued to dress right there in front of us without the slightest hint of shame. I honestly don't know if rites of passage occur at the same time for peers from different cultures but I know that for me, it was learned very early on in childhood that a person's privates aren't for public display. lol
But, on the other hand, I tend to think sometimes that I misjudge people as being in error while I am the one who is really in error because maybe this asian kid was normal; and maybe it was us who were abnormal. I mean, what does it say to your conscience that one individual would consider it normal to be naked in public while another would consider it a laughing matter? If you think further into it, don't you come to the conclusion that perhaps it would be better to be in the position of the asian kid? Don't you think it would be better to have his state of mind? Maybe it would. And no, I'm not encouraging you to become nudists. lol
That reminds me; I remember when I was in junior high, and we were given lockers to dress for phys ed, a friend of mine once accused me of being gay because I stood waiting beside him while he dressed. I don't care if I'm accused of this; I'm not homophobic or have anything against homosexuals, I know where I stand and I have never had inner conflict at all with my identity. I mention this story only because it's a good illustration. But as I was looking at him in his boxers, not thinking anything at all; I'd seen my brother in boxers every morning, so I didn't see anything wrong with it, he told me to wait outside for him. All I had been thinking about was waiting for him so that we could walk out to the basketball courts together. But once we were with all the others, he began telling them what had happened in the locker room and called me a pansy.lol He said, "He watched me while I dressed." They all just looked at me but before they said anything I looked at my friend and said, "But you're the one who was thinking that, not me." Oh man, you should've seen the expression on is face; it was redder than a tomato. And they all called him a queer. lol The sad thing, I think, is that now I can't look at a guy in his boxers without thinking that it's not normal. And maybe that's how the asian kid now feels too. Is it loss of innocence, or what? I don't know.
Maybe that's what being normal is all about; you know, not wanting to stand out in a crowd. I've seen people who have no control over this; they stand out whether they like it or not, because of a tick, mannerism, facial feature, etc. But it can also be something internal that makes a person stand out; such as something which can be made visible through words. I've also known people who enjoy being called weird, or who get some pleasure out of calling themselves non-conformists. I think non-conformity ceases to mean anything the moment a person chooses to be different or to stand out; the only way you can be a non-conformist is if you don't know you're one. lolThen once they've realized that they are already part of a group, that they're already conformed, they try their hardest not to be like the non-conformist. And where does that leave them?
I remember reading about the Hurricane, that African-American boxer who had a movie made about him; he never allowed anybody to take away his civilian clothes and spent so many years, the entire duration of is encarceration, dressed like this in prison for a crime he didn't commit. That's a heck of a story about non-conformity! He knew in his mind that he wasn't a criminal and he intended to be treated like an innocent man.
But I think everyone looks for a place, a comfort zone, and stays there. We all know about the name-calling, right?The person labeled as a wierdo is just as ready to call wierdos those who aren't like him. It all goes back and forth, everybody belongs or feels the need orneeds to sense the warmth of belonging. lol maybe being normal is what gives us all our identity or normality, I mean, if wierdos didn't have anybody to call them wierdos, and normals didn't have anybody to call them normals, then we'd all be normal. lol
Oh well, I guess that's all I gotta say about that.
well, I'm not normal. No one is. what is normal? Normal isn't a word, it's a state of mind.
I've come to believe that normal is a concept pretty much made up of wishful thinking. Or, alternatively, normal is what you are if you are not a freak or weirdo, which apparently is the worst thing you can be in some people's eyes. Normal is a concept invented by those who almost faint at the concept of getting out of your routine or appointed station in life, whoever the hell decides that. A very extreme example could be like the Dursleys in the Harry Potter books and how anything they can't explain or anything magical is met with distaste and disgust merely because it is not usual.
I think the character Trillian, from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, put it best when she said something to the effect of, "We will be restoring normality as soon as we figure out what normal is."
well, I've never really thought about whether I'm normal or not. I'm normal for me. I think everyone has some abnormality about him/herself, which isn't bad. it could be in the way you think, or the way you express yourself. I think the important thing, does your abnormality make you dangerous? a threat to others? There's a difference, I think in not being what other people consider to be normal, and being a real weirdo. Once when i had one of those people from rehabilitation bugging me to death. He was going on about how I must feel different from anyone else because of my blindness and my bone disease. I asurred him I didn't. he kept trying to brainwash me about how i was bound to feel like i was different. I said, I may have 2 disabilities they don't have, but I'm not different from anyhone else in the world, because I'm not the only blind person, and I'm not the only one with osteo genesis imperfecta. Now, I continued, if I had 2 heads, or 2 or 4 sets of arms and legs, now that would make me different from anyone else for sure. His driver laughed and said, you can't pull anything over on this girl. Well, as soon as i start growing another head, or another set of hands, I'll start questioning whether or not i'm normal, till then, I'm normal for someone like me.
wonderwoman
Makes for an interesting picture in the head, you with multiple heads and limbs. Glad you set that rehab person straight. Why do you think he was insisting that you should see yourself as "different." BTW, I wonder if, in the particular sense you're talking about, a more accurate word would be "separate?" See, all people, even the faceless nameless masses of the able-bodied and sighted are different, not just physically in all ways. But to me, society seems to believe that anyone obviously different such as being blind or disabled or whatever should be kept separate from the mainstream for whatever reason, so this is why I think "separate" might be an alternative term. What do ya think?
Why bother being "normal" in the first place? I mean, I tryed to be, specially in high school, but it back fired on me majorly. So, I figure that rather than fall in to line over being "normal", I'd just be me, and not worry about what "normal" is.
I think the main question should be: Who in the world wants to be normal? I mean, I am fine just as I am.
Well, maybe he thought of himself as different, and trying to push his feelings on to me, do't really know, but perhaps separe would be a better word than different. as for having 2 heads being an interesting picture, or 2 sets of arms and hands, I wouldn't mind at all, lol. I could talk and eat at the same time, and talk about multitasking, heehee. Anyway, Ithink maybe separate would be a better word, because i don't always fit in, but sometimes I don't fit in even with other blind people. he was a hard guy to figure out anyway, and we were glad when we finally got rid of him.
wonderwoman
I find that I don't fit in with most blind people either, wonder woman! but I don't let that get to me. I'm who I am, and if nobody, [blind or sighted], likes it, then to! bad! I'm not out to make everyone like me, and I'm not going to fit into anyone's deffinition of "normal" either.
OK, a few of you indicated that you didn't feel you fit in well with most people including blind folks? If you don't mind saying so, I'm curious why you don't think you fit in? I'm also somebody who, although I mostly communicate with blind folks, I can't always say I fit in with a lot of them, but I want to se if your ideas match mine.
well, godzilla-on-toast, I think in my case, it's because I have one other disability beside being blind. Being that I haveosteogenesis imperfecta, soft bones, or brittle bones if you will, I can't walk without a walker and there fore, I can't do a lot of things people who are blind can do. I think the more disabilities you have, the less you have in common with other people. Someone told me once that it's better to have morrals and values in common than it is to have hobbies in common. That's true of course, for example, suppose you and another person like a particular sport, such as bowling, or, my moms one time favorite sport, skating? and suppose, you or the other friend developped some health issue that made that sport impossible? well, there goes the one thing you and that person have in common, so the friendshihp dies a slow but natural death. I think, my interests are very narrow compared to most people. it seems what interests me bores other people to tears and vice versa. I could care less about sports of any kind. if I can't be in there participating and being involved, it doesn't interest me. Lioness Liz, you're probably right about not being out to make everyone ike you. I think it's better when you find people who know what you are and like you for whatever good qualities they already find in you, instead of going all out and being very careful, because, if you say this or that, the person or people may not like you. I've decided that getting people to like you is hard work. I'm being paged on messenger so will close for now.
Hmmm, interesting points. No, I never believed I ahd to keep my mouth shut out of fear of offending others or ridicule. I just don't have the capacity to BS people and I just believe in being honest. People ahve two choices, take me or leave me. Now, I think the reason why I don't fit in with a lot of blind folks is that so many blind folks seem pretty conventional and conservative in their tastes, and sometimes it can seem as if most of them have more conservative political views and are part of some kind of Christian religion. So here's me, who is very vocally agnostic, and if I care about politics at all I tend to avhe a more liberal or at least a more relaxed attitude towards hem, and my tastes can tend towards the unusual as far as music goes and not just plain old country and light rock. I also think I'm one of the few blind folks I know who loves low-budget horror and sci-fi movies. Yeah, they can be visual in some spots but they're still fun to take in. I also like old cartoons and animated TV specials from my childhood days. I'm just a square peg in a world full of round holes. LOL!
Why be normal? it's no fun to be. If you aren't then nothing will ever happen to you in life. you gotta be a little different.
Why be abnormal?
I am normal. I define normality for me, and I am it.
Bob
You should be abnormal because I don't think anybody really wants to follow the herd. They feel they have to but they don't want to, but the pressure and power of the herd is strong. Conform or nobody will like you. Go along because it's wrong to rock the boat. Go along because if you question authority they will punish you and the gods will make you suffer in the afterlife. The herd preys upon insecurity and fear to keep its members in.
I see myself as normal. I'm like everyone else; I just have to do things differently. My mom used to tell me, "You're different than other kids." I would say, "Aren't we all?" This is a very good question, but a very difficult one, for there's no right or wrong answer.
Not only that, I'm considered not normal due to my interests. Whatever happen to being able to do what I like within reason? I live in the US where we're taught from an early age that this is the greatest country in the world, but then when someone like me for example is interested in something other then American culture we're considered not right? I don't understand that way of thinking.